Interview with Xernona Thomas, February 20, 2023

Partial Transcript: Today is the 20th of February, 2023.

Segment Synopsis: Breeding briefly introduces Thomas and gives context to the interview.

Keywords: Athens Black history

Partial Transcript: I was born in Athens.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas says that she was raised in a very loving home, as she was the only grandchild on the maternal side of her family. She shares that her father was a pastor for a couple of churches in Athens and was very connected to the community, but that his family lived farther away.

Keywords: Amos Jay Jackson, Jr.; Cordele, Ga.; Ebenezer Baptist Church; Freddie Brown Jackson; Hill First Baptist Church; St. Augustine, Fl.; Thankful Baptist Church; Timothy Road

Partial Transcript: – when I started school, kindergarten was optional.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas recalls being the first Black student enrolled at Athens Academy and discusses how race affected her relationships with other students. Because of the experiences her grandfather had with racism in his life, he was concerned about her well-being, but Thomas says that she largely remembers an innocence about the way other children understood race.

Keywords: Hancock Avenue; Hawthorne Avenue; Macon Highway; Shaw sisters; Shaw’s Daycare; racism

Partial Transcript: – they put me at Alps Road for a year after that, and that’s where I started elementary school…

Segment Synopsis: Thomas explains that her parents didn’t want her being the only Black student at Athens Academy to be negatively affecting her education, so they enrolled her in the Clarke County school system. After a year, Thomas’ parents let her decide if she wanted to return to Athens Academy; she didn’t.

Keywords: Alps Road Elementary School; Timothy Road Elementary School; Vernon Jackson; basketball

Partial Transcript: It’s interesting – there were a lot of teachers of color…

Segment Synopsis: Thomas recalls the relatively large number of Black educators at Clarke County. She says that they not only made her feel represented, but they also set high standards for their students. Thomas talks about these educators’ influence on her in what she considers her formative years.

Keywords: Clarke County Middle School; Ed Shelton; Edna Bell Matthews; Ernie Hardaway; Skip Payne; Will Amos

Partial Transcript: – you couldn’t give less than your absolute best.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas describes influential high school educators of hers, saying that, at the time, she thought that the women were mean. Now, she understands that they wanted to make sure their students had the best chances of succeeding as a Black person.

Keywords: Abbie Malone; Clarke Central High School; Gayle Gordy McBride; Louise Jones; Robert Hawke; Ruth Hawke; Theodora T. Maxwell; race relations

Partial Transcript: ‘Oh, she’s trying to be white.’ ‘Why is she talking white?’

Segment Synopsis: Thomas discusses developing the ability to float comfortably between Black and white demographics. There was not only judgment from white people, but her Black peers often judged her as well. She describes being able to codeswitch as almost like being bilingual and explains that it happens depending on setting as well and not just on the race of the other party. She shares a conversation that she had with her daughter and her boyfriend to serve as an anecdote.

Keywords: African-American Vernacular English (AAVE); HBCUs; class relations; codeswitching; prejudice; race relations; resilience

Partial Transcript: – my mom always taught me, you know, you have respect for your custodians...

Segment Synopsis: Thomas talks about the knowledge that is held by custodial workers and the disregard with which they are usually treated. Thomas says that, because of this disregard, others will speak more freely around them, allowing them more information than most people.

Keywords: Roots; cafeterias; class relations; gossip; janitors; librarians; prejudice; survival

Partial Transcript: – we sometimes love them into illiteracy.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas describes the difficulty in challenging students who already have a challenging home life. She says that even though empathy is necessary, educators’ expectations for their students should not be lowered as a result. She talks about white teachers serving predominantly Black communities and how these teachers must be dedicated to their work and comfortable being in unfamiliar situations.

Keywords: J.J. Harris Elementary School; Judia Jackson Harris Elementary School; Pinewood Elementary School; community relations; race relations

Partial Transcript: Not all privilege is based on color – some privilege is based on socioeconomic class.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas compares different levels of privilege, using examples like owning a credit card and being able to find toys that look like you. Through these examples and talking about these experiences, Thomas says that it opens people up to understanding how privilege affects all aspects of life. Breeding shares an anecdote from his life, and Thomas compares it to how intent does not equal impact.

Keywords: Africa; Barbie; Santa Claus; education; race relations; representation

Partial Transcript: Find you – do you – be you – and be okay with that.

Segment Synopsis: Thomas emphasizes the importance of sticking to one’s true self and the importance of respect. She says that no one is better than anyone else, but that everyone is creative and has their own talents to be cultivated.

Keywords: childhood development; confidence; empathy; generational advice