https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment163
Partial Transcript: Whoever is doing this interview, this following interview was conducted with...
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Katherine E. Sherman and Ruth Gillard]
Gillard shares her early impressions of Dean Rusk during her time as his student at Mills College. She talks mainly about his social skills, intelligence, and teaching ability.
Keywords: Army Reserves; United States Army
https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment674
Partial Transcript: When my dad was made Dean of the Faculty at Mills College, he was a very young man.
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Katherine E. Sherman and Ruth Gillard]
Gillard talks about Dean Rusk's time as Dean of the Faculty at Mills College. She discusses the types of issues he dealt with in this role. Later, Gillard shares about the development of Dean Rusk's relationship with his future wife, Virginia Foisie.
Keywords: Kiva Club; Mills College retirement pension; social sciences
https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment1173
Partial Transcript: Perhaps you could explain how you came to work for him and with him in Washington at the War Department during the war?
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Katherine E. Sherman and Ruth Gillard]
Sherman talks about her time working for Dean Rusk at the War Department, sharing how she obtained the job and what Dean Rusk was like as a boss. Later, Sherman and Gillard discuss their memories and critiques of Dean Rusk as Secretary of State.
Keywords: G-2 military intelligence; Mills College; President Lyndon B. Johnson; Vietnam War
https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment1650
Partial Transcript: Dr. Bennett, perhaps you can start at the beginning and tell me of your first impressions of my dad on the Mills Campus.
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Dr. Mary Woods Bennett]
Bennett shares her memories of Dean Rusk when he was her professor at Mills College. She focuses on his reputation on campus and a speech he gave in the early 1940's about his decision to return to the U.S. Army.
Keywords: Mills Hall; Phi Beta Kappa; U.S. Army Reserves
https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment1897
Partial Transcript: When did you next see Dean Rusk?
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Dr. Mary Woods Bennett]
Bennett shares her memories of Dean Rusk after she left Mills College, including his time as President of the Rockefeller Foundation, as Dean of the Faculty at Mills College, and as Secretary of State.
Keywords: James William Fulbright hearings; Mills College President Lynn White; Mills College honorary degree; Vietnam War protests; interracial marriage
https://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskCCCCC.xml#segment2570
Partial Transcript: Dr. Bennett, do you have any general observations of my father as a classroom teacher?
Segment Synopsis: [Richard Rusk is reading a paraphrased transcription of an interview he conducted with Dr. Mary Woods Bennett]
Bennet discusses the controversy surrounding Dean Rusk's involvement in the Vietnam War. She shares her personal reactions to criticism of his role throughout the years.
Keywords: Mills College; Rhodes Scholarship; Vietnam War protest
[SECTION A]
RICHARD RUSK: There are other incidents of that kind of thing.
DEAN RUSK: Well, he tried to be a bully. As you can gather he was not one of my
favorite people.SCHOENBAUM: Yeah, yeah.
DEAN RUSK: But General [James H.] Burns was a dear, old fellow. We got to be
very good friends.[break in recording]
DEAN RUSK: If you ask each of the sixteen members of the EXCOM [Executive
Committee of National Security Council] to write his own account of the Cuban Missile Crisis, you would have sixteen different accounts, and you would have to try to find a way to put them all together, and see what really happened.SCHOENBAUM: Well, the nature of reality is such that you can't
reconstruct--there are always subjectives [sic] in the world, and you can't reconstruct them.DEAN RUSK: We're going to find out right here on our own project.
SCHOENBAUM: That's why--
DEAN RUSK: Well, it doesn't surprise me that there would be some things on which
00:01:00[Benjamin Huger] Read and I might remember differently, although he was about as close to me during the period he was in my office as anybody else. And for a longer period of time. He was there, what, seven years or something like that?RICHARD RUSK: And this continues--
[break in recording]
RICHARD RUSK: --crises that did not happen.
DEAN RUSK: Yeah. And there were a good many of those. Yet, since they didn't
happen the historians are not going to have much a way to get at them.RICHARD RUSK: Well, in a nuclear world the study of things that do not lead to
war [is] especially poignant and timely.SCHOENBAUM: Yeah. I think this sheds real light on the Korean War, for instance.
It sounds as if the Korean War was a tragedy that could have been avoided, that it happened through misinterpretation and missed signals.DEAN RUSK: Well, one could always wonder whether there would have been a Korean
00:02:00War if we had not withdrawn our last regimental combat team, and Dean [Gooderham] Acheson had not made that speech.SCHOENBAUM: Yeah, that's right. And no one can tell.
DEAN RUSK: No one can know.
RICHARD RUSK: Anything from the China side that Tom [Thomas W.] Ganschow would
speak to? I recall him--DEAN RUSK: Well, in a day we'll try again.
[break in recording]
[SECTION B: Katherine E. Sherman and Ruth Gillard interviewed by Richard Rusk]
RICHARD RUSK: The following interview was conducted with Kappie [Katherine E.]
Sherman and Ruth Gillard, both Mills College students, classmates of my mother's 00:03:00and former students of Dean Rusk. This interview was conducted by Rich Rusk, October 1985. Most of the remarks were made by Ruth Gillard. I took written notes and will be paraphrasing what they said.RICHARD RUSK: Kappie and Ruth. Perhaps you can start at the beginning and
describe to me how you first came to know Dean Rusk.GILLARD: I first knew Dean Rusk in the fall of 1934, Rich. I have written you a
letter about that. You may have a copy. A very early impression was that Dean 00:04:00Rusk had an ability to relate to anybody. He treated everyone with full equality. And we always worried that he attributed intelligence to everybody. Dean Rusk at that time was in charge of a forum on international relations. I do recall one incident where Dean was being heckled by several people: two hecklers. I don't recall the substance of what Dean said, but I do remember that he stood up to them. Dean used to say that the Soviet Union would be our enemy 00:05:00more so than Adolf Hitler. He always seemed to be ahead of his times. He seemed ahead of the rest of us in our understanding. That may be why he kept his position in the Army Reserves. I believe he--I remember him saying, "I feel that war is coming." He did maintain his reserve position in the United States Army. He was one of the first ones mobilized for World War II. 00:06:00RICHARD RUSK: Ruth, you had my dad as a teacher. What was he like as a teacher,
a college professor?GILLARD: He made you feel about three steps ahead of where you were in mental
ability. I had a course with him in international relations. He didn't spoon-feed you. For example, he once handed me a book, and instead of saying, "Read chapter so-and-so, and answer the following questions," he said, "read this book and give me a critical analysis of the book." I do remember that he 00:07:00was learning to teach when he came to Mills College. And I recall that he occasionally had to write words on the blackboard, and that was due to his southern accent. That southern accent of Dean's overlaid with his English accent was quite a combination. With some words we had a hard time understanding him. In terms of my general impressions of Dean as a teacher, he was very informal. He was relaxed, conversational, and informative. Like any new teacher he was 00:08:00probably too easy in a certain sense. There was no question of discipline. We students were there in his class because we were interested. We wanted to be there.SHERMAN: Dean helped a lot of people feel intelligent with his approach.
RICHARD RUSK: Were there any indications then that my father would become a so-
called "great man" or rise to such levels of responsibility in government?GILLARD: He was developing as a teacher. We didn't have any indication that he
00:09:00would be a great teacher. But one sign of greatness about Dean Rusk was that he was knowledgeable about everything that was taking place in the government. He had a computer mind. He knew about all the government internships and programs and opportunities. He really encouraged students to head for these internships. And he would look at the Mills students individually, and say to himself, (and I 00:10:00paraphrase probably what Dean would have said) "Oh, there's a likely candidate for such and such an internship." No other professor knew what was going on in the country and government as did Dean Rusk, at least no other faculty member that I recall. He would see the Mills students and make the connections between them and what he knew of them and their abilities and their interests. And make those connections with all these opportunities. For example, he would take the Mills girls to conferences in Japan, Santa Barbara, and other places both in 00:11:00California and out of state.RICHARD RUSK: When my dad was made Dean of the Faculty at Mills College, he was
a very young man, approximately age twenty-eight. He had only been at Mills for several years and was elevated over a great many faculty, many of whom considerably older than himself. Did that work out?GILLARD: As Dean of the Faculty Dean Rusk was seen as a man who could get along.
He was always logical, and always reasonable. He brought life to the faculty in 00:12:00the social sciences department. Many faculty didn't want to become administrators, or take on administrative responsibilities. But I think one reason Dean was so good with faculty, personally, was that he had become accepted during those first two years at Mills College.RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall any anecdotes or personal experiences about my dad
just in general back during those years?GILLARD: There was an all men's club called the Kiva Club. And that was the
men's protection or defense against all these women on campus. It was a retreat 00:13:00for them. We women often asked what would go on in these meetings? And they would smile as if they had secret rituals and drinking bouts. They and we both recognized the need of these men to have something that the men could call their own on the Mills campus. The Kiva Club was very popular with the men. And things 00:14:00were always kept on a light tone.RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall any issues that may have involved my dad as Dean of
the Faculty? Perhaps some issues between himself and faculty?GILLARD: Faculty salaries were very small back in those years, back in the
1930's. Some faculty members retired with no retirement pay. Often the trustees would meet and vote, for example, a fifty dollar-a-month pension for certain 00:15:00faculty members. I don't know how Aurelia [Henry] Reinhardt, the Mills College president, and the trustees kept Mills College open during those years. I do recall that the faculty did eventually get a retirement pension. I believe rofessor [Francis H.] Herrick pushed hard for that pension. This may have been an issue for Dean Rusk to handle. 00:16:00RICHARD RUSK: My dad was a younger member of the faculty and a bachelor at the
time he taught at Mills. Was he the object of some attention?GILLARD: [This is a direct quote from notes] Every single man on the Mills
campus was snatched up by a Mills woman sooner or later. 'There was quite a bit of interest in Dean Rusk, even though he was balding. He walked with short, quick, vigorous steps. He talked rapidly, vigorously with no waste of motion, and he carried himself well. He was tall and good looking. He had an athletic 00:17:00build. He was a tennis player. And he had eyes that twinkled; he would look at you with those warm twinkling eyes; and he would smile at you; and he had such a warm personality. As his student you felt as though he really cared. A typical reaction was, "Oh, boy!" and "If you had hopes, you really thought you could 00:18:00build it into something." It became a game to decide who was making it closer to Dean Rusk. He was considered an older man. We thought he would end up with an older woman, but all of a sudden we noticed--we saw that Virginia Foisie [Rusk] was taking up a dual major. She had been majoring in geography. Then she announced that she would be majoring also in social sciences. And she went to 00:19:00Santa Barbara with Dean. Virginia never talked about her relationship with you father. Whenever we asked her about it, she would simply smile.END OF SIDE 1
BEGINNING OF SIDE 2
RICHARD RUSK: Perhaps you could explain how you came to work for him and with
him in Washington at the War Department during the war?SHERMAN: I was invited by Dean to work with Dean Rusk at the War Department. I
believe it was July 1, 1942. At that time I was teaching at the San Mateo High School in California. The War Department was forming a new G-2 [military 00:20:00intelligence] for British-held areas in Asia.RICHARD RUSK: What was my father like as your boss?
SHERMAN: He was always ahead. 'He was a splendid boss.' In that office was Dean
Rusk, Robert [Francis] Goheen, Edward Hudgins, myself, a woman name Flossie [Florence] Day. I believe all of those men are still alive, and you might wish 00:21:00to talk with them for memories of your father.RICHARD RUSK: Kappie, my dad tells us the exotic story about--illustrating the
role of accident and chance in a person's life--and the fact was that rather than being sent to the Phillipines, and eventually Bataan and Corregidor with his reserve division in California, he was selected to go east to Washington, and work for the War Department in this new G-2 section. Evidently, his card was among hundreds that went through this sorting machine: a sorting process conducted by Army personnel looking for specially qualified or specially trained officers. And my dad's card fell out of this machine because of the fact that he had spent three years at Oxford, not because he knew anything at all about British-held areas of Asia. Do you happen to know how it was that he was 00:22:00selected for that position?SHERMAN: I heard the story from Thomasia Phillips who worked in that same
office. And she was the one who went through the long lists of reserve officers. I believe the story is that of all those officers, Dean Rusk had the highest I.Q. [Intelligence Quotient]. I do recall that Dean was furious about this reassignment to Washington. And as soon as he got there, he set about transferring if possible to an overseas assignment. He immediately transferred 00:23:00to G-3 [Operation and Planning]. He didn't want to sit out the war in Washington.RICHARD RUSK: Ruth, I'm surprised to hear you say that my mother was my father's
intellectual companion back in Mills, because I know as Secretary of State during the sixties he did not tell my mother a great deal about policy. As a matter of fact, they had an understanding whereby his official job and her social duties were to be kept entirely separate.SHERMAN: That may have been true even during the Second World War. there were so
many things we couldn't tell her. there were so many things that were classified. But I do remember your mother was a marvelous cook, housekeeper and 00:24:00entertainer. She started her young married life with one recipe.RICHARD RUSK: Kappie and Ruth, perhaps you could move ahead in time, and tell me
about any experiences you may have had with my father back in the 1960's when he was Secretary of State.SHERMAN: I do remember that your father and mother visited us at our house in
Washington, D.C. for dinner in the 1960's. The neighborhood boys saw that long, 00:25:00black limousine and hid under the bushes with cameras. Dean saw them and said, "O.K., boys, come on out. Where do you want me?"RICHARD RUSK: Were either of you surprised by any aspect of my dad1s performance
as Secretary of State in contrast to what you had known of him at Mills College in the thirties? And, Kappie, in your case in the War Department in the 1940's?SHERMAN: I do remember that Dean was very tight-lipped with the press at the
beginning during his first year in office, but I remember that he loosened up 00:26:00considerably after that first year.RICHARD RUSK: Ruth and Kappie, my father came under tremendous controversy and
criticism during the sixties in connection with Vietnam. How did that affect you as friends of his and my mother's?GILLARD: I do remember Dean standing up for the president, bearing the brunt of
that criticism, and Kappie and I knowing that we would never know [the extent?]. "He stood up all alone."[end of summarized interview]
00:27:00[NOT IN AUDIO: extension of remarks made in 1985 October by Ruth Gillard]
GILLARD: Your father never, even in casual meetings, was at a loss for something
of substance to say. And he seemed always to gather information and commit it to memory. I remember another occasion shortly after your mother and father moved into their first home in the Oakland Hills above Mills campus; I was invited to dinner. Virginia and I were awaiting Dean's arrival from classes at Boalt Hall [University of California Law School] when the front door opened and Dean announced his presence with a question: "Name the nine justices of the Supreme Court." He followed this with "Who are the current members of the Cabinet and their positions? 'I realized many years later when he was Secretary of State that, in a sense, he used a continuous system of question-answer to retain and organize data on any given subject. I remember dropping into their D.C. [District of Columbia] home one Saturday morning when you were all gathering to watch some baseball game. Your father was in conversation with you or David [Patrick Rusk] about your team, its strengths, its weaknesses against their opponents, its standing in the league, etc. If you were to watch the game, it was clear it should be with a full grasp of all aspects and meaning. I remember another occasion when as Secretary of State he mused about the paucity of linguists in the U.S. He rattled off the number of Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc., linguists we had in this country at the beginning of World War II, and noted the areas in which our capability was still close to zero. As you know, people are amazed at your father's command of facts, details, and the history of events in the context of issues. It was always so. At Mills College there was never a forum, or discussion, whether economic, political, or historical, in which he was not more thoroughly versed than his conversants. While he was concerned with his students' answers, he taught us that there are times when there was no single "right" answer. He was concerned with the process by which we arrived at a position and could sustain it with facts. We may not have realized that his approach to teaching was the best, but he made us think and he made us believe that we could think. Your mother was well-educated, highly intelligent, and possessed of an inquiring mind in many fields. This is what I meant when in our October, 1985 talk, I told you that she was an intellectual companion for your father. They could converse with each other well beyond the realm of domestic affairs. Your mother's abilities were seen particularly as the wife of the Secretary of State when she recognized the needs of the fast expanding embassy community in D.C. It was she who devised, organized, and carried out a program of orientation for the wives and staffs of the ambassadorial corps. The wives of the Assistant Secretaries of State formed her volunteer group. They provided a much needed service to help these foreign women understand the U.S. government, the diplomatic life of the capitol, and to answer questions about schools, etc. This story, I am sure, is well-documented. Virginia attended every embassy reception in honor of its country's birthday. She could enter a room and greet each person by name! This was no easy task on her part. She set out to find a system to put a name and a face together. It was only years later that I learned your mother and father both used their "spare" moments to commit hundreds of names to memory.[End of extended remarks made by Ruth Gillard]
[NOT IN AUDIO: Extension of remarks made in 1985 October by Katherine E. Sherman]
SHERMAN: I graduated from Mills College in 1934 and returned to the college that
fall on a fellowship as assistant to Dr. Cardinal Goodwin, Chairman of the history department. It was then that I met Dean Rusk who had come to Mills as a professor of political science direct from Oxford. That same year Dr. Daniel Dewey also joined the faculty as a professor of ancient history. These two brilliant teachers and I had the dubious honor of correcting the freshmen history tests. We became good friends in the process. Dean also conducted the community forum with which I helped. At one forum meeting two hecklers sought to take over the discussion. Dean stood up and demolished their harangues and lies with facts. That was the beginning of my experience and knowledge of communist tactics and how to counter them. I left Mills at the end of the 1934-1935 academic year and spent the next seven years In various teaching positions. I did not again see Dean or his wife Virginia, whom I had known as a fellow student, until shortly after the outbreak of World War II. In early spring 1942 Dean contacted me at San Mateo High through the good offices of Dr. Goodwin. He explained that, as a captain in the Reserves, he was in Washington, D.C. in charge of augmenting the staff of the British Empire section of G-2 [military intelligence]. I accepted his request that I join him and reported for duty in July 1942. Thus began my career as an intelligence officer. In later years when friends inquired about his choice, Dean would say with a twinkle in his eye, "For the South Pacific theater I had to choose between a drunken planter and a good researcher." Our little group was composed of then Major Rusk, Captain Edward Hudgins, then Second Lieutenant Robert Goheen [later president of Princeton,] Thomasia Phillips, Florence Day, Katherine Sherman and two secretaries. Dean did not wish to "sit out" the war in the Pentagon and within six months he managed a transfer to Operations and then to active duty in the CBI [China/Burma/lndia] theater on [Louis Albert Francis Victor Nicholas] Mountbatten1s Staff. Virginia and young David returned to the west coast, as you know. When Dean returned to D.C. with his family at the end of the war he intended to finish his law studies. That was no to be. He was persuaded by General George Catlett Marshall and other officers to stay in the "operations assignment." Later, when General Marshall became Secretary of State, Dean moved with him to that department. Other old friends and I saw a great deal of the Rusks during this period when Dean was Assistant and Undersecretary of State. It was during this that Richard [Geary] Rusk and then Peggy [Margaret Elizabeth Rusk] were born. I spent a total of eight years working for G-2. Toward the end I tired of the mop-up detail after the end of the Pacific war and transferred to CIA [Central Intelligence Agency]. Thus began a seventeen year career of identifying and countering communists and communist operations. I often saw the Rusks socially when Dean returned to Washington, D.C. as Secretary of State having resigned as president of the Rockefeller Foundation Virginia always invited us for Christmas She was a marvelous cook, you know. Let me close these recollections with an anecdote: one evening about 6:30 when I was working at my desk at Langle, the phone rang and a breathless girl said "The Secretary of State wishes to speak to you." Dean came on the line and said, "I am at the White House using the red phone. I am tired of not being able to reach you through your own switchboard. Virginia and I want you to get Ruth" [a classmate of Virginia's who had joined our group of friends in the 1950's in D.C.] "and come out to our home for dinner. The Philippine Embassy just sent us a fine casserole." Of course, we went. The next day Allen Welsh Dulles, then director of CIA, asked to meet me. Yes, my colleagues were amused. Richard, you asked how the tremendous criticism of your father during the Vietnam war days affected my friendship with your father and mother. The answer is not at all, unless it was that our friendship was strengthened.[End of extended remarks by Katherine Sherman]
[SECTION C: Dr. Mary Woods Bennett interviewed by Richard Rusk]
RICHARD RUSK: Dr. Bennett, perhaps you can start at the beginning and tell me of
your first impressions of my Dad on the Mills Campus.BENNETT: I first came to Mills in 1935. He had come in 1934 and very quickly became
well-known. He clearly made a large impression in one year's time. I didn't know 00:28:00him very well in those early years. I do recall the views of faculty. I remember lunches and dinners at Mills Hall. And I recall the excitement of senior faculty people in-the-know.RICHARD RUSK: What do you remember of my Dad's relationship with my mother back
at Mills?BENNETT: I do remember the courting of Virginia [Foisie] by your father. It was
done so circumspectly that there was never a shred of disagreeable talk about that relationship. Virginia had a lovely appearance. She was a Phi Beta Kappa. I 00:29:00remember one of her classmates saying, "That girl doesn't look the type," [the Phi Beta Kappa type]. I do remember on the part of faculty that there was great satisfaction over the decorum with which that faculty-student relationship was carried out. And I do think the older faculty were pleased that the word did not get out, and that they kept that relationship a private affair.RICHARD RUSK: Dr. Bennett, what are your clearest memories of my father back at
Mills College?BENNETT: My most vivid memory took place, I believe, in 1940 or perhaps 1941. Your
00:30:00father gave a talk at the outdoor theatre. And he had recently decided to return to the Army as a reserve officer. I believe that decision was made for him by the U.S. Array. But the theatre was an outdoor theatre; the place where we gave our Shakespearean plays and other dramatic performances. It was a nice day in the fall. And in these brief remarks Dean told the gathered assemblage why it was that he was responding to the call of conscience and sense of duty. And I do remember--I don't recall the exact words that he used--but I remember the quality of the feeling it invoked. I was even reduced to some tears over it. "He 00:31:00was so straightforward and heart-felt." And it was a very clear explanation as to why he was joining the service. At that time he disappeared into public service. And all the years since I only saw him in episodes.RICHARD RUSK: When did you next see Dean Rusk?
BENNETT: In 1948 he was Degree Day speaker and received an honorary degree. I can
remember our Mills College President, Lynn [T.] White, saying that someday it would be good for Dean to have that honorary doctorate. I remember Dean and your 00:32:00family during his years as President of the Rockefeller Foundation. And during my trips to the east coast I would visit your home in Scarsdale. I can remember having dinner with the kids. And on one occasion I gave a talk, and Dean Rusk wrote a note to the President of Mills College about my performance. L.T.W. was speculating that Dean might become a collegiate president. And at that time I had become Dean of the Faculty. He once introduced me as a person who had taken 00:33:00his old position as Dean of the Faculty at Mills. And he said, "Very few old Army men are able to introduce his own replacement." I can remember your father visited the Mills campus prior to his selection as Secretary of State. This probably was in the year 1960. And he spoke at Mills about the residency and the role of citizens in a democracy. Your father gave three talks. At that time there had been speculation about Dean Rusk as a possible Secretary of State. So this would have been after John Kennedy's election but before your Dad's 00:34:00appointment. I do recall that he said about the racial situation in the United States, "We need to get this monkey off our backs." In the student newspaper I'm sure there will be summaries of his remarks. I do recall that your father edited the oral tapes that were made and sent them back to the Mills College Library. In terms of additional contact with your father during the sixties, I remember a trip that I took around the world in late 1965. I never knew the details, but 00:35:00this Mills connection must have made a difference, because I was given the red carpet treatment during my travels abroad whenever I came in contact with an American embassy. Ambassador [Angler] Biddle Duke must have been involved with that. I do have one vivid memory of a Dean Rusk trip to Mills College as Secretary of State. This may have been at the time when your father and mother came to Palo Alto for Peggy's [Margaret Elizabeth Rusk Smith] wedding to Guy Smith, which was held on the Stanford campus. And Dean asked to come over and 00:36:00visit the Mills campus. I believe he was in San Francisco as well to make a speech. But he called me and said he wanted to come over and look around the Mills campus. And we drove around Mills. And we went to see his old office that was still located in those temporary buildings built in the 1920's. Those buildings were still there. And when we walked into his office, a very startled young man burst out of that office. Your father said, "I'm Dean Rusk." And the 00:37:00young man said, "I know. I know." And we went from there to look at the tennis courts where Dean and Virginia would play tennis with Dan and Catherine Dewey. On that same trip, when Dean had given his speech in San Francisco, he had been picketed by Vietnam war protestors, and greeted rather rudely. At one point while Dean and I were walking across the Mills campus, and walking down one of 00:38:00those paths we came across two students. And one girl smiled from ear to ear and said, "Welcome home, Mr. Secretary." It was a lovely moment, and a very poignant moment, especially in light of what Dean had just been through. His trip to Palo Alto, Peggy's wedding, and this visit to Mills occurred near the end of his tour of duty. Many of the students at Mills had been vociferous in protesting the war in Vietnam. I remember one of the student interns, who had served in Washington, 00:39:00D.C., had learned that your father had taught at Mills; that your mother had been a student there. And she had learned how good a teacher your father had been. When she returned to the Mills campus she suggested Dean Rusk as a speaker for the associated students. And she encountered objections from the other students. Her reply was, in effect, she knew the person. Why couldn't they see beyond their noses? Etc. But evidently your father did not accept this 00:40:00invitation and made another trip to Mills College after leaving office. He was picketed by students and faculty at Mills But this picketing was done with much decorum. This was his first public appearance since leaving office without the protection of the Secret Service. I do recall that the picketers walked in a circle of some sort outside the building, and were silent. And it went very well. The student who invited your father was very pleased. And the faculty and all of us who heard him speak were certainly impressed- And I must say as an old 00:41:00friend of Dean Rusk, it was heartwarming for those of us who had seen the whole beginnings of his career at Mills, and had seen everything else.RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall any other instances, any other experiences with Dean
Rusk, perhaps after he had left office?BENNETT: The last time I saw Dean and Virginia was in the early 1970s. At that time
my sister was playing in the production "Annie". And your parents wanted to see the show. I got tickets for them. And the man who gave me the tickets for your 00:42:00parents said to me, "I would do anything for that man because I once watched him on television. I knew that he was a smoker. And yet, during those two days of testimony there was never a sign of fidgetiness. He didn't smoke during that entire time, and I would do anything for him." He obviously was referring to your father's testimony for the [James William] Fulbright hearings.RICHARD RUSK: Dr. Bennett, do you have any general observations of my father as
a classroom teacher? 00:43:00BENNETT: He was very much admired as a classroom teacher. He seemed to be in the
thick of things. He was one of a long line of Rhodes Scholars.RICHARD RUSK: What was your reaction to his appointment as Secretary of State?
BENNETT: I was not at all surprised. One had a sense that Dean Rusk was heading
somewhere. He gave out all those vibrations.RICHARD RUSK: You were a personal friend of Dean Rusk. Was it difficult for you
seeing him play such a controversial role, and become the target of such bitter 00:44:00criticism associated with the Vietnam war?BENNETT: I was so fond of Dean Rusk and so admiring of his accomplishments that I
could not deal with the criticisms I heard about your father, and the war in Vietnam. In any kind of social context or social setting, whenever this subject came up, and the subject of your father's participation in that war was mentioned, I would simply explain that I had known Dean Rusk as a colleague and a friend. And that no one who knew him personally could possibly question his intelligence or his integrity. And that I simply can't talk about it. And that's 00:45:00the way I reacted. That was my reaction. I felt that I didn't have the knowledge or the interest, and I shut off all conversation about it. I was simply too close to the man. I felt too close to the man to comment on his role. My latest contact with your father was as a spectator of one of the shows for the former Secretaries of State, the symposium that was broadcast on public television. And in my opinion there was no question that he was the star of that show. I have some references for you for additional information. President Lynn White, who 00:46:00came to Mills in 1943, might have some stories about your father at Mills. He lives in Los Angeles. He replaced Aurelia [Henry] Reinhardt. The alumnae association puts out a quarterly. Mrs. Eda [M.] Regan, the librarian in charge of the archives at Mills, might have some materials for you. Her phone number is [4l5] 430-2116. That library might have the tapes of your father's remarks at Mills College just prior to his appointment as Secretary of State. The address 00:47:00for that would be again Mrs. Eda Regan, User Services Librarian, Mills College, Oakland, California 91643 And a last possible reference might be a Mills alumna, Mrs. Margot C. J. Mabie, who is President of the Mills College Club of New York. She lives in New York or Connecticut. She wrote a book on Vietnam for young people, Vietnam: Here and There. Deceased, 1987 00:48:00 [END OF SIDE 2]