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TAPE: 1 [01]00:20:07
B.J. : When you were a little girl what was your favorite thing to do? [01]00:20:13
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Mostly work. Went to school, got out of school, went to
Dave's soda shop, work from, I got out of school at three, from four to 12 at night, six days a week. So, there wasn't much time for anything else.[01]00:20:33
B.J. : They paid you $100 dollars a week, so, it was worth it, right?
[01]00:20:36
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : No, I got $25 dollars a week, but, mostly, then, but,
pretty good tips.[01]00:20:42
B.J. : Did you?
[01]00:20:43
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Mm hmm.
[01]00:20:44
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) Yeah, yeah.
[01]00:20:46
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And, my mother thought I was great because I would,
wouldn't open the envelope, here, mama going that's for you. She would say, oh, you're so sweet, thank you, sure you don't want any? No, mama, I'm all right.[01]00:21:00
B.J. : That's really wonderful.
[01]00:21:02
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : But, I got good tips, you know? But, I didn't tell her how
much tips I got, I just gave her the envelope.[01]00:21:11
B.J. : So, you weren't completely noble?
[01]00:21:13
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : No, no, no.
[01]00:21:14
B.J. : Did you have any toys?
[01]00:21:25
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yes, I had toys because my mother worked in service. And
she, um, worked for people that had toys, and my mother was very good about putting a new wig on a doll, or, making new dresses, so, I had plenty. But, (SOUNDS LIKE) west of it go his way, guys who would go her way and crossing the lane from us, it was about ten of them. They would come and want to play with everything of mine, if I want to play with something of mine, or, we go home, leave me with (UNINTELLIGIBLE)[01]00:22:10
B.J. : Wesley (SP?) would leave you too?
[01]00:22:12
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah, Wesley went to the YMCA, he was with the Boy Scouts,
he was busy. When, you know, mama had to work late at night, you know, people had a (SOUNDS LIKE) party since then. Come straight home, (SOUNDS LIKE) but, it's to stay busy.[01]00:22:28
B.J. : When you say mama are you talking about your mother or grandmother?
[01]00:22:32
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : My mother.
[01]00:22:33
B.J. : Your mother.
[01]00:22:34
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Tell you, I stayed with my grandmother after my father
died. And (SOUNDS LIKE) then my grandmother died, then I lived with my mother.[01]00:22:45
B.J. : Tell me something about when you lived with your grandmother.
[01]00:22:50
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yes, I was small then, my grandmother was a very religious
woman. Every evening the kids come and sit on the stoops and she would read the Bible and explain things you know about the Bible in simple ways which I could understand it. (TECHNICAL)[01]00:23:26
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW (CONTINUED)
Read the Bible to all the kids in the neighborhood, they loved to hear her read
the Bible and explain it to us the simple way a child can understand. Then, she would have something for us. Sometimes, she'd cut up sugar cane, or, sometimes (STAMMERS) cookies she would make. But, she would have something to give us. Everyday. She read the Bible to us everyday except Sunday, we went to church. All day just about, Sunday, we went to church. And she took them washing and ironing, but, she would cut off everything to read that Bible to us. Plus, she played the piano. After we had what refreshment she had to give us, we would go in the house, play the piano and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sing church songs.[01]00:24:28
B.J. : Do you remember any of them?
[01]00:24:29
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Oh, I remember a, lots of them.
[01]00:24:32
B.J. : Can you tell me one?
[01]00:24:34
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Uh, old fashioned, you know. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) A fact he
know practically all of them.[01]00:24:43
B.J. : Like (SINGING)
[01]00:24:44
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) Oh, yes, yes, yes. But, Davis, I mean, West
is saying (UNINTELLIGIBLE) now.[01]00:24:49
B.J. : Is there anyone that you liked to sing? Did you like to sing?
[01]00:24:58
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : I used to sing, I can't anymore. But, I used to sing.
[01]00:25:04
B.J. : Grandma had to work pretty hard, didn't she?
[01]00:25:07
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yes.
[01]00:25:08
B.J. : Did she take, just take in laundry, or did she . . .
[01]00:25:12
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Well, the people, the rich people would bring their
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) to the house, or, send they chauffeurs to bring it to the house (COUGH) (SOUNDS LIKE) where they pick it up when its finished, chauffeur, either they'll bring it, (STAMMERS) and my grandmother was a great (STAMMERS) spiritualist. She was a reader. And, um, the rich people would come in they chauffeur-driven cars, they go in the room, we (SOUNDS LIKE) wasn't allowed to come, go, come in there, pull the shades, they must be, was happy 'cause they kept coming back. She once told me. So, they good, 'cause you wouldn't be coming back, right? Mm hmm.[01]00:25:57
B.J. : Do you mind if I call him Wesley?
[01]00:26:01
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : No, you call him Wesley.
[01]00:26:02
B.J. : Did you talk about Wesley learning about White life?
[01]00:26:14
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) Well, well, maybe he did. I'm quite sure, if
he told you, he delivered it, but, I was more in, um, see I was the youngest, and I was small at the time.[01]00:26:30
B.J. : What did you know about White people growing up?
[01]00:26:35
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Well, at first, until I knew a little bit, because I was
very afraid at first, 'cause they would burn crosses and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the house and they burned a cross (UNINTELLIGIBLE) burned a cross there. So, it's not a comfortable feeling. Do you know they would have the spotlights shining in the window, I wouldn't go to my bed, I would get in bed with my mama I was so afraid. So, when you're friends with someone, it still didn't make you feel too comfortable, right? So, but, as I grew up, I knew White people was a little better, I knew they were, like, anybodys else, some are good, and some are bad. Like Black people. Some are good and some are bad. So, we (SOUNDS LIKE) came in touch everybody I like.[01]00:27:39
B.J. : Did he ever talk to you about what he wanted to do with his life?
[01]00:27:52
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Well, Wesley and I, we spoke more when my mother was
(STAMMERS) ill. That's when he told me he wanted to talk, you know, about some of the things I knew because, lady that next to my grandmother, after my grandmother died, she and her husband took from me. And some things I knew because they would tell me that. They knew my grandmother read the Bible to me. They would read the Bible to me and pay me to give to the, money to give to the lady that was keeping us and mom would get off from work.[01]00:28:31 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW (CONTINUED) : But, we weren't to tell, I wasn't
to tell them that I didn't do nothing, but, sit and she would read the Bible, and tell me about my life growing up 'cause, like I say, that's how I know as much as I do because she and her husband knew what my grandmother used to do. And they would tell me some things otherwise I wouldn't have (STAMMERS) remembered.[01]00:28:57
B.J. : Why did she want to know? Why did she ask you these questions?
[01]00:29:06
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : She told me.
[01]00:29:09
B.J. : Oh, she told you.
[01]00:29:09
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) How good my grandmother (STAMMERS) in things
she did. That's why some things I couldn't remember 'cause I was young. Mm hmm. See, Miss Ida (SP?), she, she was up, the baby-sitter that my mother was crying one day because the lady she worked for went to go to North Carolina. My mother told her she had three small children. And she couldn't go with her and she say, well, you go, or, else. So, the lady, came down did washing and ironing (UNINTELLIGIBLE) my mother (SOUNDS LIKE) would wash while I was here crying and she told them. She said, I'll keep them for you, if you'll pay me, I can't remember how much she had to pay her.[01]00:29:56 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW (CONTINUED) : And, they could, (STAMMERS) we can
get, I can get fooled at a store that you pay me, come back, credit, you know? So, ma was happy and I was happy. (SOUNDS LIKE) This week I'm gonna have somebody, she used to beat me practically everyday. I don't know why.[01]00:30:15
B.J. : Say that again.
[01]00:30:17
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Beat me practically everyday. But, (STAMMERS) I didn't know
why. The lady beat me so much the way she said Tessie, I'll cried, and if she wasn't gonna beat me, she'd beat me for crying.[01]00:30:31
B.J. : Did you ever ask why?
[01]00:30:31
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yes. No, no, no, no. I was afraid of her. See, I'm the
timid one. What stopped it, my brother came home. Came there one day 'cause, he didn't come me and my sister had to eat then (STAMMERS) she'd go (STAMMERS) with us at night and slept at our house. Well, Wesley must have had a premonition or something, he came that day. Miss (UNINTELLIGIBLE) used to beat you with no clothes. A cowhide. You ever seen a cowhide?[01]00:31:05
B.J. : No.
[01]00:31:07
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : It's braided. It's round and it's leather and it's braided.
And it has a handle on it, and she hits you one time, you gotta (SOUNDS LIKE) hold on it and Wesley came and saw, I started crying 'cause we had peas and rice that day, (SOUNDS LIKE) sausage and (STAMMERS) rice was tomorrow. That's what we had to eat, but, she was, wouldn't be as bad, she and her daughter, or, for my money if, mama's money that she had to pay for the food sit up the steaks and salads and chicken and all that. We didn't get that.[01]00:31:45
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : So, Wesley came one day and this, Wesley, she was beating
me and Wes (SOUNDS LIKE) sat down the chair, came in and the chair was ahead, he said cut my sister loose and don't you come to our, our house. He said, if you hit her again, I'll kill you. So, we went home, real young kids, we went home, Wesley (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that he could, he was, I think he was working as a delivery boy, or, something.[01]00:32:14 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And he brought what he could sometimes and
he'd bring home (SOUNDS LIKE) poached skins. You put it in the oven, bake it, was good to us because, we was used to peas and rice, anything (SOUNDS LIKE) was better. And, so, Wesley tried and Miss (SOUNDS LIKE) Ida couldn't come to the house, but, my mama, they come home, he said, I'm old enough to take care of them. Mama was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) (SOUNDS LIKE) me and especially Tessie.[01]00:32:43 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : She said, you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) she jumps
on Tess and beat her everyday for nothing. So, she said, well, we could stay home, but, she'll gonna have to come at night 'cause we girls me and my sister, you know. And (SOUNDS LIKE) she would be afraid to leave us there at night. We had fun when Wes was keeping me staying at the house 'cause we were afraid (SOUNDS LIKE) if Miss Ida might come.[01]00:33:12
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) How old is Wesley at this time? Like 13, 14?
[01]00:33:20
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : No, he wasn't that old.
[01]00:33:21
B.J. : Wasn't even that old?
[01]00:33:22
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (CLEARS THROAT) No, he wasn't that old.
[01]00:33:23
B.J. : More like 10, or, 11?
[01]00:33:25
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : He was, I think he was, wait a minute, wait a minute, was
he in the Boy Scouts? I know he was in the Cub Scouts first. I think he was a Boy Scout. (SOUNDS LIKE) I don't know (STAMMERS) how old you have to be to be a Boy Scout. But . . .[01]00:33:38
B.J. : But, he wasn't more than 12 years old.
[01]00:33:39
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : No, no, no. (TECHNICAL)
[01]00:33:46
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And he was so nice one day, he came home--
[01]00:33:50
B.J. : Wesley? [01]00:33:52
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Uh, yeah, and said, get ready, I'm taking you and Dorothy
to the movies. Ooh, I was so happy 'cause I didn't get to go to the movies. He took us to the movies and (SOUNDS LIKE) they hads us a nice time (STAMMERS) we got the movies, saw Pinocchio (SP?). And I saw it twice. I want to see it the third time, you know, when you're not used to something, I went to see it the third time, but, he said, well, I'm gonna leave you here. You stay, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and I know I didn't know the way home, so, I was caught there.[01]00:34:34
B.J. : That's terrible.
[01]00:34:34
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Mm. But, I wanted to see it three times.
[01]00:34:41
B.J. : So, you were being beaten by this woman?
[01]00:34:50
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Tie me to the bed. She had a bed with the posters, uh, she
would tie me to the bed, naked, make me wet myself 'cause it stings more if you're wet and beat me. Sometimes, I used to go to school with my clothes stuck to me and nobody reported it.[01]00:35:11
B.J. : Wesley came in one time and saw this?
[01]00:35:14
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah.
[01]00:35:15
B.J. : And, and--
[01]00:35:15
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) And he took us home.
[01]00:35:16
B.J. : What did he say to her?
[01]00:35:18
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : He told her, he'll kill her if he (STAMMERS) if she hit me
again. He say, she's just a little girl and you gonna kill her, he say, I'll kill you if you hit her again and you better not come to our house, he said, come on, let's go home. You better not come to our house. And we made it fine by ourselves 'cause mama came home once a month and he bought what he could, but, we were happy. We wasn't cooks then, but, we'd do the best we can, and we were happy.[01]00:35:52
B.J. : You children were all alone? Just you and your sister and--
[01]00:35:55
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And Wesley.
[01]00:35:56
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) Just the three of you?
[01]00:35:57
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) Wesley took us home, yeah. 'Cause beat me so
bad, she would beat me so bad, I mean, he took us home and she wasn't allowed to come there 'til after my mother came home, then, my mother, you know, asked us--[01]00:36:12
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) What did your mother do?
[01]00:36:17
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) Well, my mother told, and all that, but, you
know, you think about a, a woman, young woman, husband's dead, didn't leave her with nothing, she had to sell his car to bury him and she was stuck with three little children and, and what I hear, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) wasn't that good then. And she had to be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and take care of, she didn't have no kind of help. So, what can you do? My mother had it hard too.[01]00:36:58
B.J. : It sounds very typical for that time. You couldn't complain though.
[01]00:37:10
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : It got worse, yes. And my mother used to leave work about
five o'clock in the morning, 'cause she had to fix breakfast, she didn't fix much, served (SOUNDS LIKE) a dinner at night before she get home, sometimes, it's about nine or ten o'clock at night, didn't, (STAMMERS) when she worked in Savannah. But, you know, they would go up (SOUNDS LIKE) tivey, certain time a year, North Carolina certain time of year and (STAMMERS) sometime (UNINTELLIGIBLE)[01]00:37:43
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And you go or else, you got children to feed. And that's
one thing I can truthfully say about my mother. Uh, lots of, um, women that, husband died when he was very young, they bring other men in the house. My mother never did that. She always demanded we give her a respect. And she gave us respect.[01]00:38:14
B.J. : How did they call you? By your first name?
[01]00:38:55
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : First name.
[01]00:38:55
B.J. : Yeah.
[01]00:38:58
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : But, I didn't stay there very long, I had left home when I
was 19. And I've been here ever since. Things are very hard sometimes because when we had the one experience in that one experience in the city. And how could you get, and I would say, how can you get experience if nobody give you a chance? That dumb. Right? Everybody wants (STAMMERS) experience in this city and, so, I mean, the (SOUNDS LIKE) day is I got by off of nothing much because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I left home with good grace. And my mother said, I was mostly scared of Ku Klux Klan and I wanted to get away. And my mother say, well, I hate to see you go. But, if you go, don't fail. If you need anything, call me if you have to call me collect, but, I mean, it, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for anything. Now, all this, one thing I'm gonna tell you. When I got married, I wrote my mother and I said, mom, I'm getting married on January 27th and, uh, I'll be going to the courthouse and (SOUNDS LIKE) I know anything, my brother, he sent me money. He say, our father is dead, it's up to me to see that you have a decent marriage and he sent me money for the reception and he sent my mama to give me away.[01]00:40:37
B.J. : Wesley did this?
[01]00:40:38
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah, Wesley did that. He was good at, you know. He was
firm, then. That's why I (SOUNDS LIKE) boarded him a lot. 'Cause he wants you to speak properly, and he's always, you know, he want you be nice, and he didn't want me to wear pants at the time when I'm growing up, all my friends were wearing pants. Mom, that girl don't have no, (STAMMERS) no dresses. Well, I'll see that you buy her some. Didn't want me to wear pajamas without wearing a robe.[01]00:41:14
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Now, I mean, a pajamas should be all right, I gotta have
one (SOUNDS LIKE) housecoat. (STAMMERS) So, I (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I love him with all my heart, but, he always find some, kind of, way, sometime to criticize his look. When I was home, this lady said, um, I know you somewhere, don't I? I said, I don't think so. And, so, she kept saying, I know I've seen you somewhere. Lady say, do you know Mister Law? And she say, yes. She, that's his sister. Oh, that's why I think I know her 'cause she looks like him.[01]00:41:56
B.J. : How did that make you feel?
[01]00:41:59
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Fine.
[01]00:41:59
B.J. : Good.
[01]00:42:00
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : (OVERLAPPING) He's my brother, we, we should
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) We got (STAMMERS) had the same mother and father.[01]00:42:07
B.J. : Was he working in the Post Office when you were still there?
[01]00:42:11
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Mm, wait a minute. No, he was, when he was in the army, I
was home. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Yeah, no, I was still home when they, when they, um, was in the army.[01]00:42:29
B.J. : Did he write home?
[01]00:42:33
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yes. Took out (SOUNDS LIKE) allotments for me and my mama.
[01]00:42:37
B.J. : Took out what?
[01]00:42:38
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Allotment. Yeah, he was in the army. He took out (STAMMERS)
allotment for me and my mother, but, my sister was too old.[01]00:42:49
B.J. : Did he like the army, do you think?
[01]00:42:51
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Well, you know where they stationed him? In Mississippi. He
had a, a desk job, but, he didn't leave (MAKES NOISE) he was ready to get in trouble.[01]00:43:10
B.J. : He would have gotten in trouble.
[01]00:43:12
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah, so, (STAMMERS) that's where they stayed after his
basic training. And, so, that's how he was able to go to college . . .[01]00:43:21
B.J. : Yeah.
[01]00:43:22
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : 'Cause he had a honorable discharge.
[01]00:43:23
B.J. : Yeah.
[01]00:43:24
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And my mama had to sign for him to get him in the army
because, uh, she didn't have no birth (SOUNDS LIKE) certificate then. And everybody in funeral homes and everybody know when they was born they sign (SOUNDS LIKE) something to get in the army. And, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and he came out and he gonna have to go to get any higher to, um, go to officer training school, but, they got to be, I think, it's a master sergeant, right? A master sergeant?[01]00:44:02
B.J. : Did he give you advice?
[01]00:44:07
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Oh yes. All the time. That's why I say, I got, avoided him
a lot, but, I'm not gonna say I was a perfect child. You know, you wouldn't want your brother telling you what to do all the time.[01]00:44:20
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) Or my sister.
[01]00:44:20
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah, your brother, your sister tell you what to do all the
time. So, (STAMMERS) a lot of times I would go the other way, and I used to get angry because, when I was young, I used to sing a lot in the glee club and all the school and you know who had to take me? Him. Sometimes he would drive me almost because, um, he had his things he want to do, his Boy Scouts and his Cadets and his this and that. He won't have time to be picking up his little sister from kindergarten, take her to school everyday, picking up everyday and when she got someplace to go, mama working, he had to be the one to do it.[01]00:45:04 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : So, naturally, I (STAMMERS) resented, I love
him, but, sometimes, he, old, try to be, you know. It's the truth, he was nice, and, um, people always said to me, just the week before he died he sent me a hundred dollars.[01]00:45:30
B.J. : He got himself in trouble more than once, didn't he?
[01]00:45:33
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Not that I know of.
[01]00:45:36
B.J. : He got fired from the Post Office.
[01]00:45:38
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[01]00:45:39
B.J. : (OVERLAPPING) How did that happen?
[01]00:45:41
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : I forgot about that.
[01]00:45:44
B.J. : You forget about the bad things.
[01]00:45:47
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah. The other kind of folks, the mean one, she accused
him of urinating on her lawn. So, he got (STAMMERS) fired. But, President Kennedy, he was out of work for quite a while, but, President Kennedy had him reinstated and he got all his back pay. Yeah, so many of those little things happened, I may forget some things.[01]00:46:19
B.J. : Did you ever have an experience seeing the KKK?
[01]00:46:26
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Yeah, I told you they would ride round the block and have
spotlights shining at the window and, and Wesley, at the Post Office you gets it all the time, or, and that's really that would be why you worked at this other because we'd end up (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and all, he can always go. He would always go to meetings and things and this particular night, um, he was out of town, so, my, my mother called (SOUNDS LIKE) Ralph Gilbert.[01]00:47:05 TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : And he said, stay in the house, turn the
lights off, and be quiet. If you have any trouble, give me a, a call and I see what I can do. But, I didn't sleep that night and I was very anxious to leave. That's why I left. I saw I'm a coward. (SOUNDS LIKE) I don't know if my family's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) They could come with me if they wanted to. But, I was really afraid. You have cars going round the block with these big spotlights shining in the window. You know.[01]00:47:46
B.J. : Did they have on those white hoods?
[01]00:47:53
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : Some did.
[01]00:47:53
B.J. : Some did?
[01]00:47:54
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : They had a parade around the house. It wasn't one car, or,
two cars, (STAMMERS) and I say, well, I'm not ready yet, so, I had to, to leave.[01]00:48:07
B.J. : Do you know what they wanted from you?
[01]00:48:10
TESSIE ROSANNA LAW : They wanted Wesley's head because they know he was
President of the NAACP. First, is was President of the (SOUNDS LIKE) Youth Council, then, the (SOUNDS LIKE) doubts. And they wanted his head. And the way he used to go in, um, I think it was Woolworth's and pick at the store and go sit up on the, my mama did. Yeah. Me and my mama did. Too scared. (TECHNICAL)